tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16959946.post4191904763257630849..comments2023-12-09T16:44:47.897+01:00Comments on The Data Charmer: On contributing to MySQLGiuseppe Maxiahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15801583338057324813noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16959946.post-54230731538236463802013-07-08T12:28:04.823+02:002013-07-08T12:28:04.823+02:00I don't understand how you jump to that conclu...I don't understand how you jump to that conclusion?<br /><br />I was just pointing out that, no, Monty Program does not require a contribution agreement i the same way ... and that yes, BSD-new without additional agreement required *does* make a difference ... and one other minor problem ...<br /><br />So as far as contributor agreements go I think I was trying to provide to your understanding of how things work ...<br /><br />As for Oracle not changing their ways we can probably agree on that, and that renders that whole effort of asking for more contributions sort of moot ...<br /><br />As for "business / legal reason": as Antony pointed out there are other projects where Oracle seems to be fine with BSD-new contributions without extra contribution agreements. So yes, business or legal reasons may be the only lever that may cause change, but one could at least wish for an otherwise very much central policy driven company like that to come up with more consistent policies in this respect, too ...<br /><br />So while i'm wishing them all good look with this "more contributions" effort and i don't see anything specifically evil in it (like some may do) I'm in Goethes "Faust" mode once again:<br /><br />"The message well I hear, my faith alone is weak"Hartmuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04699518177282504742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16959946.post-35842519405412943472013-07-08T11:58:35.189+02:002013-07-08T11:58:35.189+02:00@Hartmut,
You seem to believe that I have some pow...@Hartmut,<br />You seem to believe that I have some power of convincing Oracle to do <i>The Right Thing</i>. Sadly, I don't.<br /><br />But I like to understand how things work. And I know that if there is not a business or a legal reason for a change, Oracle won't do it.Giuseppe Maxiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15801583338057324813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16959946.post-11812291042251017482013-07-08T11:47:25.423+02:002013-07-08T11:47:25.423+02:00"So, realistically, I take what I get."
..."So, realistically, I take what I get."<br /><br />a) things got even worse in that respect under Oracle<br /><br />b) there is a less bad alternative to work with (or actually several if you don't strive for full compatibility)<br /><br />And even when only considering the compatible options: as far as i can tell all of them would be fine with BSD-new licensed patches but one ... why would i want to jump through extra loops for just that one? <br /><br />Unlike in the older days there *are* viable alternatives now ...<br /><br />Hartmuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04699518177282504742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16959946.post-58886293175531703232013-07-08T11:29:11.827+02:002013-07-08T11:29:11.827+02:00@Hartmut,
I understood the point, and that's w...@Hartmut,<br />I understood the point, and that's why I mentioned that other open source projects require the same amount of legal paperwork, under the "better safe than sorry" flag.<br />I personally don't like it, because I hate bureaucracy, but I understand why it is necessary.Giuseppe Maxiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15801583338057324813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16959946.post-84223299192010352912013-07-08T11:17:22.295+02:002013-07-08T11:17:22.295+02:00This is not about which license to use, this is ab...This is not about which license to use, this is about "do i have to commit to an extra agreement" vs. "is a suitable license choice on my side sufficient" ...<br /><br />This is not about the content of the contirbutors agreement, it is about the extra legal hurdles this can cause ... especially if you need your employer to sign off on it <br /><br />(which i don't think i personally do ... but that is a different story)Hartmuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04699518177282504742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16959946.post-65549707617266818892013-07-08T11:13:41.883+02:002013-07-08T11:13:41.883+02:00@Hartmut,
I would also like development and refact...@Hartmut,<br />I would also like development and refactoring to happen in the open, but let me remind you that the MySQL team has never been a good social player. So, realistically, I take what I get. The main point for me is that MySQL is provided as open source and its quality is overall increasing (I have my reservations on some features, but that's beside the point). It is open enough to allow forks to flourish.Giuseppe Maxiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15801583338057324813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16959946.post-26124016382984244342013-07-08T11:06:37.552+02:002013-07-08T11:06:37.552+02:00@Hartmut,
The point of complaint was " Allow ...@Hartmut,<br />The point of complaint was " Allow me to contribute code with a BSD (3-clause) license without having to sign anything new and then we can talk."<br />Thus I mentioned that a contributor agreement is an established basis of many open source projects.<br />I am not a lawyer, but I see that the Oracle Contributor Agreement asks for joint ownership, meaning that you can keep your code under whatever license you want.<br />The OCA says "you agree that each of us can do all things in relation to your contribution as if each of us were the sole owners."<br />I haven't seen any mention of GPL or BSD or any other license being requested or forbidden. Unless Oracle states explicitly that they accept contributions only under a specific license, I don't see the reason for complaint.Giuseppe Maxiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15801583338057324813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16959946.post-12373575467887323752013-07-08T10:55:57.637+02:002013-07-08T10:55:57.637+02:00"I know that the developers are refactoring t..."I know that the developers are refactoring the code to make it more modern and manageable, but they are doing that while trying not to break anything that works well today."<br /><br />This part would be more compelling if this would happen in the open, with up-to-date public development trees on launchpad or elsewhere.<br /><br />In the current situation it is rather an argument against outside contributions as you'll never know in what interesting ways the code you have been working on may change in the next release ...Hartmuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04699518177282504742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16959946.post-47775791936995120892013-07-08T10:50:29.247+02:002013-07-08T10:50:29.247+02:00Have to confess that i'm not done readin yet, ...Have to confess that i'm not done readin yet, just a quick comment though:<br /><br />"Besides, also MontyProgram asks the same thing ..."<br /><br />The key difference here is that this is only one of two options.<br />The other one, and this is the key difference as Antony Curtis also already mentioned , is to provide code under BSD-new License terms on a case by case basis instead of commiting to a general contributors agreement:<br /><br />https://kb.askmonty.org/en/community-contributing-to-the-mariadb-project/<br /><br />"Code Licensing<br /><br />Similar to other open source projects, Monty Program Ab needs to have a shared ownership of the code that is included in the MariaDB distribution. This can be done by submitting your code under the BSD-new license. The only currently known exceptions to this rule are storage engines and code that is loadable through a plugin. For these, it's enough that the code is GPL.<br /><br />If you want to submit code under a license other than BSD-new, sign and email the Monty Program Contributor Agreement."<br /><br />Hartmuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04699518177282504742noreply@blogger.com